Tag Archives: Hall of Fame

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griffey

Scott and Korban discuss the 2016 Hall of Fame ballot, discuss the likelihood of Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell’s election in ’16, and the slam-dunk Hall of Fame case of Ken Griffey, Jr.


Category: Baseball
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dave stieb

Most baseball writers believe that Jack Morris will be elected into Baseball’s Hall of Fame and Museum in 2014, his final year of eligibility. Despite his lifetime 3.90 earned run average and otherwise pedestrian numbers (he does have 254 wins, but that’s more a function of his run support and rubber-armed ability to pitch deep into ballgames.). Stieb’s numbers, when you strip away circumstances beyond his control, are arguably superior to Morris’s, but there is no ground swell of support for his Hall of Fame induction. In his only year of eligibility (2004) Stieb only garnered 1.7% of the vote. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? Is HE, not Jack Morris, the best pitcher of the 1980s? Have a listen and make a judgment call!

Dave Stieb: Baseball Reference

Mopupduty: The Stieb-Morris Debate
Dave Stieb Squeezed out of a perfect game?
HuffPo: The Ryan Braun Suspension Timeline


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don sutton

Don Sutton looks, at first blush, like a no-doubt Baseball Hall of Famer. He won 324 games, struck out 3574 batters, and compiled 58 shutouts in his career. He never missed a start and, had the 1981 player’s strike not happened, would have pitched over 200 innings in 21 consecutive seasons. He NEVER missed a start. He struck out 207 batters as a rookie in 1966, and was a model of consistency that the Baseball Writers Association of America elected to the Hall of Fame in 1998 with 82 percent of the vote.

So why the controversy?

He was very, very good for a very long time, but rarely considered the best pitcher in baseball. He was an all star four times, and in the top five of the Cy Young Award voting five times, but never the winner or runner-up. He pitched in the Era of the Pitcher, also known as the “Second Dead Ball Era,” so while the numbers he posted seem outstanding, he was only 120th all time in Baseball-Reference Wins Above Replacement. He was very good. Was he good enough for the Hall? Listen to find out.

Email your reactions to scott@thebaseballexperience.com. You can follow me on twitter @scotteiland. Like us on Facebook at http://facebook.com/thebaseballexperiencebodcast. Or leave a comment below. Don’t forget to leave us a rating and written review at http://thebaseballexperience.com/itunes. Thank you for listening!


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rogershornsby

Rogers Hornsby (1896-1963) is one of the greatest players in the history of Major League Baseball. Thanks to Babe Ruth (who was the player who saved baseball after the destructive Black Sox Scandal) and Ty Cobb (another contemporary who is the only player to finish his career with a higher composite batting average), Hornsby is one of those players well known only to baseball junkies and historians. The brash, opinionated Texan was the best hitter in the 1920s not named Ruth or Cobb, and for a six year stretch (1920-1925) was absolutely unbelievable. He led the National League in batting in each one of those years, with averages of .370, .397, .401, .384, .424(!), and .403, an unheard-of run that will never happen again. He was also a power hitter, leading the NL in homers in 1922 with 42 (the second-place guy, Ray Grimes, hit only 21.) He regularly boasted OPS (on base average plus slugging percentage) numbers over 1.000. Because of a steep decline that occurred as the 1920s wore down (Hornsby had his share of injury problems), he finished his careeer with 2930 hits, seventy short of the almighty mark of 3000 hits. (more…)


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Roger Maris
I was PLANNING on breaking down both Maris and the player to whom he will forever be tied to, Mark McGwire, today. However, the amount of content available for both players is so vast I decided to make two episodes. So, without further ado, let’s discuss the Hall of Fame case of Yankees, Athletics, and Cardinals outfielder Roger Maris.

Roger Maris’s reasons he SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame

-One of only three two-time MVP winners to not make the Hall of Fame (Barry Bonds and Dale Murphy are the others)

-He hit 61 home runs in 1961, breaking a record many said would never be broken.

-He hit his 275 career homers before the advent of steroids. His 61 home run season is also apparently blameless.

-In his short career, he participated in seven World Series

-He was considered the best corner outfielder in the game during his prime

Roger Maris’s detractors will point to the following:

-Career batting average of .260, the lowest of any Hall Of Fame outfielder.

-Only twelve seasons of major league service, plus only four years where he played more than 140 games.

-Without 1961, there’s no way he’d be featured on this podcast.

I really thought that, after looking at the data, I would look at the back-to-back MVP seasons, plus the single-season home run record (under tremendous media scrutiny, death threats, and a frustratingly antagonistic New York fan base that revered Babe Ruth but treated Maris like a carpetbagger)

The case is much more difficult than I expected it to be. On one hand, the 61* movie by Billy Crystal colored my judgment and made me believe that Maris was a sure-fire Hall of Famer. Sabermatrician Rob Neyer wrote last year that Maris isn’t a Hall of Famer. and it isn’t close. The question, of course, is what is MY verdict? Tune into the episode to find out. You might want to revisit Bill Simmons’ mythical five-level Hall of Fame as you listen to the show.
Links:
The 1961 Major League Expansion Draft
Why Isn’t Roger Maris in the Hall of Fame (Moran)
Neyer: Nope, Roger Maris Isn’t a Hall of Famer
61*


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Today, we take a look at another controversial case for Baseball’s Hall of Fame, examining the career of Atlanta Braves outfielder (with short stints in Philadelphia and Colorado) Dale Murphy. We also take a quick look at another strange career from yesteryear, evaluating Detroit Tigers hurler Virgil Trucks.

First, let’s take a look at Dale Murphy. Many old-school journalists loved Dale Murphy, and many Braves fans clamored for him to be in the Hall of Fame, citing his two MVP awards and amazing six-year peak as rationales for his inclusion in Cooperstown. His detractors point to his precipitous decline, the abrupt end to his career in 1993, and his pedestrian “counting” stats. Which side is correct? Let’s look at his career.

Dale Murphy was born on March 12, 1956 in Portland, Oregon. After excelling in high-school ball at Woodrow Wilson High School in Portland, the Atlanta Braves made him the fifth pick in the 1974 Rule IV Draft. He got cups of coffee in the majors as a catcher in 1976 and 1977, then had his first full season as a 22 year old in 1978.

His rookie year did not go well, posting a triple slash line of .226/.294//394, numbers that are considered so awful today sophisticated writers would be howling for his demotion to the minors. He improved quite a the following season (splitting time between catcher and first base), hitting .276/.349/.510 in 104 games, hitting 21 homers in 394 at bats.

As a 24 year old in 1980, hitting 33 homers and driving in 89 in an era when 30-homer seasons were rarer. Murphy hit .281/.378/.507 and came in 12th in MVP voting. This impressive year was followed by mediocre numbers in the strike-shortened 1981 season before Murphy’s meteoric rise occurred.

Dumping the “tools of ignorance” for good, Murphy won the National League Most Valuable Player award in 1982 AND 1983. He smacked 36 homers in each year and led the league both seasons in RBI. He was the best player in the league in both seasons, but in 1983 he was otherworldly, joining the then-unheard of club of players who hit 30 homers and stole 30 bases in the same season. He was extremely durable during his peak, going over four years without missing a game and piling up Silver Slugger awards and Gold Gloves (Gold Gloves are subjective, yes.) Murphy went on to post great seasons (albeit non-MVP seasons) in 1984, 1985, and 1987 (finishing in the top-12 in MVP consideration those years) before his numbers started to fall off.

Rob Neyer wrote a Sweetspot blog post in 2009 explaining what happened next. Murphy underwent knee surgery in 1989 and was never the same player. His career, which began with so much promise as a 20 year old, was over by age 37. In that way, his career was similar to current Dodger manager Don Mattingly’s; like Mattingly, Murphy had an amazing peak. His “decline phase” (seasons between ages 34 and retirement) was so precipitous that by the time he was up for election in 1998, it had been more than a decade since his last amazing season. Add that to the gaudy numbers being put up in the same time frame (70 homer seasons, anyone?) and Murphy’s great 1982 and 1983 seasons pale in comparison.

For that reason, voters never seriously considered him for inclusion in the Hall of Fame. His numbers hovered between 18 and 28 percent in each of his fifteen seasons on the ballot, which unfortunately concluded this past season. Murphy will have to wait for the Veterans’ Committee to put him in the Hall; I’m not holding my breath, but stranger things have happened.

Does Dale Murphy merit inclusion in Baseball’s Hall of Fame? Rob Neyer says no. Stay tuned for my verdict.

Virgil Trucks links:

Virgil Trucks Baseball-Reference page
1952 Standings and results